tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post3208922240565630617..comments2024-03-12T21:24:23.240-04:00Comments on Emily Bryan Romance: Getting the Christmas History RightEmilyBryanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03542349086762747179noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-24143248174715396512010-12-22T20:42:29.176-05:002010-12-22T20:42:29.176-05:00ISRW--Your raise some interesting points. Let me s...ISRW--Your raise some interesting points. Let me see if I can give you a few things to think about. Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem because they were both descended from David and Bethlehem is his city. In a world before birth certificates, the return to the ancentral city for official purposes was common among Israelites. I'm not sure about the rest of the Roman world, but the purpose wasn't so much to count the people as to tax them. I'm certain Rome did that. What government doesn't?<br /><br />Quirinius was the Roman governor at the same time Herod Antipas (son of Herod the Great) was the King of Israel, a puppet ruler propped up by Rome to keep the locals happy. There is no disparity between the two accounts.<br /><br />Christmas was not celebrated until the 4th century, but all the biblical accounts of the New Testament were written within 70 years of Christ's death. I firmly believe the historicity of the Bible and stick to the details given in the gospels. We run into problems only when we try to add on the traditions about His birth that came much later.MiaMarlowehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18027069675291646955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-39645300627511682322010-12-22T09:42:15.278-05:002010-12-22T09:42:15.278-05:00The simple idea that Mary and Joseph were Galilean...The simple idea that Mary and Joseph were Galileans but had to travel to Bethlehem for the census is, itself, historically.... "questionable," would be a nice way to put it.<br /><br />First off, the Romans didn't do worldwide censuses, period. And the idea of asking everyone to return to their ancestral cities? Everyone in the ancient world? Imagine the logistics of that. No other source mentions anything like this census.<br /><br />Meanwhile, Luke specifies that it happened when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was Governor, but Matthew puts it under Herod. Finding a way to reconcile those two accounts requires a certain amount of bent-over-backwards interpretation. (Most scholars today simply say that Luke's text is mistaken.) Herod was King of a client kingdom, and would have collected his own taxes anyway, so why a Roman census?<br /><br />The entire device of this census is simply intended to make Jesus's life agree with prophesy -- the line of David and all that. Nobody had a tradition about Christ's birth until centuries after Jesus. <br /><br />This entire story is exactly the sort of thing you say would make a book a "wall-banger."ISRWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-8935333357060389202009-12-23T10:29:33.140-05:002009-12-23T10:29:33.140-05:00Emily,
I agree with you in cutting back on the sp...Emily,<br /><br />I agree with you in cutting back on the spending for our families who already have enough. Yes, I think it's a great idea to give to any charity. They all need our help this year.Sandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01843816981385732033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-54223587117373124662009-12-23T07:17:46.761-05:002009-12-23T07:17:46.761-05:00Have you heard about the Advent Conspiracy? It'...Have you heard about the Advent Conspiracy? It's a growing movement aimed at taking the commercial element out of celebrating Christmas, encouraging Christians to pare down the gift frenzy and ramp up the giving to those who cannot give back. Just a fraction of what we spend on things our family and friends probably don't need would make a huge difference to a third world village.<br /><br />The birth of Christ made a huge difference in the world. The celebration of His birth could too. I'm rethinking how I'll do Christmas in 2010, at least with regards to my own presents. If I can deflect them to a worthy charity, I'll have a happier Christmas and someone else will have a better life.EmilyBryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03542349086762747179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-10396301722714175372009-12-23T00:28:45.191-05:002009-12-23T00:28:45.191-05:00Thanks for bringing out a lot of important points....Thanks for bringing out a lot of important points. So many people use selected passages from the Bible to support their cause or point of view. As you point out, most of the traditional parts of the Christmas story are not really represented factually. Just like we took over the pagan winter solstice celebration for the Celebration of the birth of Christ, Christmas has been taken over by the commercial enterprises to make lots of money. Anyone who thinks Dec. is solely a time to celebrate the birth of Christ is very wrong. It is and always has been a a special time of celebration for many different belief systems.librarypatnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-86660124917496694762009-12-22T22:00:20.594-05:002009-12-22T22:00:20.594-05:00You're right, Emily, about the historical fine...You're right, Emily, about the historical fines supporting Christ, but for a long time there was a lot of controversy and still is.Sandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01843816981385732033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-15301721905458830162009-12-22T20:45:50.948-05:002009-12-22T20:45:50.948-05:00Margaret--The Bible says it best, "Let God be...Margaret--The Bible says it best, "Let God be true and every man a liar." If we go back to the original (or as nearly as we can reckon it), it clears up lots of misconceptions. Lots of people have tried to make the Bible say things it doesn't.EmilyBryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03542349086762747179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-58831209536275356362009-12-22T16:23:16.495-05:002009-12-22T16:23:16.495-05:00Hi Emily,
Very interesting. There are so many myth...Hi Emily,<br />Very interesting. There are so many myths surrounding Christmas and the bible too, for that matter.<br /><br />All the best for the festive season.<br />MargaretMargaret Tannerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07123830410502520003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-90247918524066118642009-12-22T14:04:42.570-05:002009-12-22T14:04:42.570-05:00Sandy, I don't think of it as blind faith. I s...Sandy, I don't think of it as blind faith. I see plenty of evidence for the historicity of the Bible. Every day, it seems they are making new archaeological discoveries that support the biblical accounts.EmilyBryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03542349086762747179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-36433154295964098622009-12-22T12:50:37.257-05:002009-12-22T12:50:37.257-05:00Emily,
What an interesting post. I think everyth...Emily,<br /><br />What an interesting post. I think everything gets embellished over time when it comes to the Bible. There have been numerous translations. I'm a Christian, and I believe in God, but it's a blind faith, which may be the real test for us.Sandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01843816981385732033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-39108142363515965302009-12-22T09:58:46.130-05:002009-12-22T09:58:46.130-05:00Merry Christmas to you too, Barb!
The errors cree...Merry Christmas to you too, Barb!<br /><br />The errors creep in over time. And most of them are harmless. I still love to sing "The First Noel" even if the snow wasn't so deep. <br /><br />And the method of celebrating the holiday has gone through several revolutions. I'm sure the retail frenzy we engage in now was the last thing on the church father's minds when they fixed a date to celebrate Christ's birth. <br /><br />It's interesting to me that people who reject Christmas are even insisting on throwing out the secular bits of it--Santa, Christmas trees, the whole works. Everything except the buying frenzy. Gotta keep the economy going . . .EmilyBryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03542349086762747179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3217012316587200736.post-76473561576696401402009-12-22T09:32:34.074-05:002009-12-22T09:32:34.074-05:00Hi Emily,
You've brought up some very pertinen...Hi Emily,<br />You've brought up some very pertinent points--I wonder, also, how some of these additions actually slip into the Christmas Story. <br /><br />Sometimes I think it's poets or songwriters taking poetic license that eventually becomes part of the tradition. I heard a Christmas hymn recently that mentioned the cold, snowy night and how Mary had to keep warm in the stable. Hummmm. <br /><br />Thanks for the thought-provoking posts.<br /><br />Merry Christmas and Happy New YearBarb Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08996074777659677868noreply@blogger.com